How Chronic Illness Requires Multi-Layers of Healing

In this talk with Judy Cho, Board Certified Holistic Nutritionist and Functional Nutritional Therapy Practitioner, we talk about how to get to the root cause of illness, omega-6’s, histamine, Lyme disease, and much more.

Hey guys, it’s Judy from nutrition with Judy.

Thanks for joining me today. While you’re here, please make sure to like, and subscribe. If you’re listening to this on podcast, please make sure to leave a review as this allows my content to get in front of more people. And thank you for that. My name is Judy Cho and I’m board certified in holistic nutrition.

I focus on root cause healing, and oftentimes I start with the carni cures meat, only elimination diet. Okay, so today I had the pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Bruce Hoffman, Dr. Bruce Hoffman focuses on so many things, and he really tries to get people that are suffering with chronic illness to root cause healing and truly heal people to a place that they could have a better life.

As you listen to this conversation, you’ll see that it gets very complex. There are layers of healing and he is not somebody that will sugar coat things in a sense. You just need to do this and therefore you will heal or you need to do that, or you need to take this magic pill. It’s not like that for him.

And he’s just very real in terms of chronic illness is difficult. Chronic illness can cost a lot. Um, it can take a lot of effort and time and energy, but. The point is that he says that there is hope and that you can heal, but there are certain things that you just need to go through and it takes time and diligence and the fortitude to want to heal.

Sometimes it’s working on our mental health and working on traumas from our past or even limbic system retraining and focusing our brains to not be as heightened in a immune response or a fight or flight. And it could even be deeper than that. And working on somatic retraining, I will put a lot of the stuff in the show notes, but this is a very important conversation, especially if you’re dealing with chronic illness, you’ve been to so many different doctors, you’ve done so many different modalities, tried different diets and nothing is fully working to get you better.

I talk a lot about SIRS as I spoke with Dr. Eric Dorner, and we continued from that conversation to talk about little nuances about some of the medication, as well as how it. Combines with limbic system retraining and other things. What I want you to really get out of this conversation is to understand that healing is very comprehensive, but if you want it enough, and if you try enough and you do these things, that there is a way to get to root cause healing.

I know that sometimes it may seem like our lot in life where illness is just prevalent, but it may sometimes be that we need to focus on healing our past traumas, as well as even the way that we are viewing the world. As Dr. Hoffman brought up, we often think about 60,000 thoughts in one day. How many of those thoughts are actually making you sicker or an unwell or in a negative state, that’s then bringing that into your life instead of healing and the belief that you can actually heal.

So while this conversation, isn’t the easiest, I think it’s the most real and most open and genuine that you will find in terms of really trying to heal chronic illness so that you can have a better chance at optimal health. Dr. Bruce Hoffman is board certified and he has a fellowship in anti-aging medicine, as well as a master’s degree in clinical nutrition.

He’s a certified functional medicine practitioner and in his clinical training, Dr. Hoffman has also studied with many of the leading mind, body and spiritual healers of our times, including Deepak Chopra, Paul OSHA Rames Baskar and John Katz. Dr. Hoffman was born and educated in South Africa and obtained his medical degree from the university of Cape town.

As you’ll see in our interview, Dr. Hoffman is a lifelong learner. He is always wanting to learn and grow and learn from other practitioners and just provide the best level of care to get people to healing with his patients. I’ve met many functional doctors and naturopaths and integrative doctors that really tried to consider the body as a whole, but Dr.

Hoffman truly takes it to a whole different level. And that was one reason why I wanted to interview him because I felt that he can provide more answers for some of the hardest cases that we may find in the Carver community. Let’s get right into the interview. Hi, Dr. Bruce Hoffman. I am so excited to have you on my channel.

I heard a lecture of yours and I was enamored because you were able to consider all different illnesses and understand that the body is really one body and how so many things are affected. And you talked about how chronic. Is just more than one thing and how everything is connected. So, um, I really wanted to have you on my channel.

I think so many people will benefit from your knowledge. I loved also that you knew about the carni diet. So that was a bigger plus to me. But if you can introduce yourself. Oh sure. So I am a south African trained MD, um, graduated from the university of Cape dun where the first heart transplant was done. And, uh, moved to Canada in 86 and first was a rural physician. And then. Started to be influenced and started to investigate all forms of healing. Um, having been originally exposed to Eastern philosophies and religions as a, as a teenager by my high school teacher, Roger. And so when I found myself a medical school, and then when I started to become a family physician, I started.

Visit some of the ancient heating practices that are investigated as a teenager and some of the philosophies. And then all of a sudden fell across Larry DSY and Deepak Chopra and all the leaders in the field and went and met them and studied with them. And then just kept expanding my diagnostic paradigm and therapeutic paradigm wider and wider to incorporate as many levels and layers of the human experience as I could, and then fell into Ken Wilber’s integral theory of everything.

And once you start, and once you start looking at external and internal and, and individual and cultural, and you just start looking at all the determinants of illness, you end up with a very large roadmap, if you will. And I eventually ended up taking the, um, ive. Roadmap of the, the, the Ko, the bodies that people seem to have.

So if you look at the ancient tic text, they say, we’re not just a physical body where we a physical body, that’s constantly in exchange with the external environment. So we always exchanging atoms, you know, right. As Deepak lights to say, we’ve got, you know, a million atoms of Atel Jesus Christ and Hitler, you know, , we’re constantly exchanging information.

So, so the first level of the, of the paradigm I use is the external world of air and, and water and earth. And that incorporates all the toxicology because we in touch with that. And it, it interfaces with our second level, which is our physicality, our biochemistry, and our structure. And that’s what we do in traditional medicine and functional medicine chiropractic and, and.

All the therapies that to do with structure and, and biochemistry. And then the third level is to, you know, to do with the, um, energetic, the electromagnetic fields, as we’ve learned from Cal, uh, from Albert PA and, and others that are light emits from our body in a coherent form from DNA. So DNA S squeezes light and it emits, and there’s a standing wave around us, which is either coherent or incoherent.

And it also resonates with human resonance, which is the sort of resonance of the earth. But then you got all the manmade fields that are interposed deployment now, and then you have this dysregulation of that are own innate. Coherent electromagnetic fields and that’s correlated with the brain and the autonomic nervous system.

So I have a brain treatment center where I do Q EEGs and we do heart rate, variability studies and stress response testing. And that’s the sort of the brain and the autonomic nervous system is the, is the sort of gateway between our internal experiences and our external world. It all eventually comes through the brain.

The brain sort of records everything that our internal dialogue, our 60,000 thoughts a day, right? Our values, our perceptions are all run through the system. And we know that our thoughts and beliefs influence our biochemistry and our immunology and I sell receptors. So the fourth level. The emotional body.

So trauma plays a big role in that, as we know, and this is very real, uh, people with early developmental trauma attachment disorders, either neglect, trauma, or abuse, trauma, or disorganized attachment, they have much higher, um, negative sort of health outcomes. And they have a much more difficulty in self-regulation and self-regulation in the parasympathetic state is, is the healing state.

And if these, and if these individuals with, you know, early separation from mother or early neglect trauma, if they don’t develop a sense of self, they don’t have a ability to self regulate. And that sets these so-called HPA access in this heightened state of, of hyper vigilance and inability to self regulate, which then shuts down the VA tone and so forth and so on.

So that’s fourth level is the emotional level. And then the fifth is the ego based. The part of our, our reality that sort of gets us through life. Mm-hmm , you know, ego based. Um, ability to negotiate the slings and errors of life is based on the resilience or the fragility of our ego self, which is very much the first half of life drivers.

You know, we are driven in the first half of life by the ego to be a, you know, find safety with mother and father, find connection with other, and then find our way in the professional world, which is the three stages of development of the brain. You know, the reptilian brain, the limbic brain, the prefrontal cortex.

We are driven to develop that, you know, neurodevelopmentally so that in our thirties, we’ve now got a nice prefrontal cortex that can inhibit any fears or any, uh, trust issues we have from early developmental support or not. Uh, so that’s all to do with. With the fifth level, which is the, which is the egos, the ego drives and our defenses, when life gets to difficult, we develop defenses against certain things, right?

And people have very, sometimes very rigid defenses or very fragile defenses and are often not open or susceptible to the healing movement. They just, they defended against any further intrusion into their sacred innocence. You know, they’ll protect you. And so you’ll launch into a, a mold diagnosis you’ll launch into.

Marcel and Liam and whatever you want. You’ll be working at level two with toxicology and physicality. But if that person’s unconscious belief system is shutting out and defending them against any sensitivity or any vulnerability you can work until, you know, the cows come home. You’re not gonna penetrate that, that system, that person.

And you’ve gotta be subtly aware of defense structures, internal dialogue value systems. You’ve gotta know those subtleties, I think in order to best help that person. Because if a person’s sitting in front of you and they don’t trust you, you can work till you can run test all accounts. Come on.

Nothing’s gonna shift in that system. Well, the sixth level is the soul. Um, second half of life, the authentic self that we often leave behind in the first half of life pursuits. You know, we go out and find safety and companionship and educate and. Safety. And we slay the dragons, the drives, the, the Freudian drives, right?

You know, the bitterness drives the Adlerian drives to power, but Carl Yung came along and said, the real drive is to know yourself. And that only sort of starts the surface in the, in the second half of life, when all the machinations and twisting of your psyche to get your needs met in the first half of life, you leave your authentic self behind in order to get seen and met and, and to get educated.

But then in the second half of life, you gotta go and reclaim all the parts you left behind.  right. In order to get where you are going. So that’s soul driven and the soul is. Personal and collective, uh, and families, the family soul. We now know from early, you know, family in constellation work that is initiated by ber Heminger and, uh, and, and taught by others, including mark Warland, who does fantastic work in this area that we, when we born, we not only get exposed to our parental influences, which have a, the whole set of determinants in the fourth level, but we also inherit, um, epigenetically, right?

The experiences and emotions of our ancestors. And so you’ve gotta like diagnose and treat ancestral inheritance of early experiences. And that’s another whole subset that we look at. And in union psychotherapy, we look at the individual soul. What is, what, what is the most authentic and instinctual. Core of this human being that’s sitting in front of you.

What is being asked to manifest? Because symptoms, as I’ve said in other webinars, symptoms are not, they don’t fall out of the sky. You know, they, they teleological, they have meaning and intent and sometimes symptoms, whatever silent in the system in, in your psyche will often show up as some form of illness or tragedy or bankruptcy or betrayal or whatever you want.

And symptoms are like that. They they’re often pointing to that, which is unseen in your evolution. So if you lose symptoms, it’s just things to get rid of, you know, suppress the mild cell, press the, my cell response.  um, as opposed to why the, my cells active is it because the child was never safe with mother.

So she, they developed my cell activation as a means to, to keep people at a distance with the skin rashes and the eczema IM not worthy of being touched. So I will keep my defenses. So sometimes that can be teleological in that. And if you don’t ask that question, you often miss the boat. And then the seventh level is everything beyond the ego-based pursuits.

You know, we in the infinite universe, the evidence for our insignificance is rather overwhelming and, uh, And so sometimes we have to sort of give up our hubris and arrogance and, and know that in the vast scheme of things, just give thanks because we really don’t know what’s going on. You know, there’s something, there’s some divine intelligence that’s manifesting that we need to be humbled to.

You know, I, I love that. And so I’m sure the people that are listening it’s it makes sense. A lot of what you said, it’s, it’s really everything. That we have experienced, but it’s also a lot of what we don’t know. And, and it includes the brain. It includes mindset. It, it could include religion and even just ancestrally a lot of the things as well.

The question becomes then, I mean, we, or Western medicine is all about, like you said, it’s you have a symptom. It’s how do you alleviate that symptom? And most of the people listening to this and watching this know that that’s not good enough, right. We need to figure out why do I have pain so that I don’t have to take that anti-inflammatory medication.

But beyond that, then we go to naturopaths and functional doctors and they say, it’s an autoimmune or it’s thyroid related. And again, it’s treating a certain thing without considering all of the things that you just mentioned. Yeah. So if we are, for example, struggling with chronic fatigue, how do we start?

Like where, where do we journey and how do we start getting to root? Cause because most people that are consuming this information, understand, we do need to get to root cause, but it gets confusing. Do I need to treat the limbic system first, do I need to get out of the environment? That’s um, I’m struggling with mold, you know, where do I start?

Because I really just wanna heal and I don’t wanna waste my money in this journey, but from everything you’ve said, it’s it’s complex. Objection. It’s complicated. So I, I can only tell you what I do. I don’t know if this is correct. I don’t, you know, it just works most of the time with P I’m sitting in my office here, and three feet for me is where patients sit or six feet and I take history.

So I, you know, I have a methodology of doing that. So I have a 70 page questionnaire and I ask, and I read everything on that. And I take the history from that. And my question is like, is set up so I can quickly go through what I do is ask, first of all, what are your top symptoms? And I write them all done, and I go through fatigue, cognition, sleep dentistry, and then all the systems.

And then I look at hormonal issues of male, female diet, um, psychological development, uh, family systems, uh, spiritual practices. So I grow through all of those and I, I. Try and do it as quickly as I can. It takes two to two and a half hours to take a history. And then what, but the thing is to attune to all the UN unsaid cues, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta limbically relate with the individual in front of you and you gotta look for hidden cues and symptoms.

Cause it’s not just knowledge, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s limbic resonance. It’s it’s you can’t only use your thinking function. You gotta use your feeling function as well. If you look at the Myers Briggs type and so you take this history, you feel into it, but you also use left brain didactic reasoning.

And then once you’ve taken a history across all the layers and levels, you then. Diagnostically work out where, what do I need in order to help fill in the gaps of knowledge that this patient, uh, needs in order to diagnose potential. As we use the words antied mediators and triggers. And then I usually set out a whole series of labs, but I can tell you what I use more often than not.

Um, I almost always do a Q EEG. I look at the different speeds of the brain, the Delta theater. Alpha and beta brain waves. And I look to see if they’re amplified or depressed and the ratios between them. I look at the autonomic nervous system through heart rate variability. I do bio Imped studies, looking at fat muscle fluid content.

Um, look at the phase angle to see if the cell membranes intact. Then we always do never forget this piece. Always, always like if there’s one thing I’m passionate about is this one always do the NASA lean test, the 10 minute lying and standing test. Oh, okay. Because I tell you 20% of people are pots.

Right. Get really busy and, and you won’t treat anybody with, unless you get the pots under control. There’s no one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do the lean, you know, do that test. My staff are trained to do it on everybody and we train patients to do it at home.
And so many pots. Yeah. I also do a neuroco MRI. We looking at different parts of the brain.

Uh, we pixelate different frontal lobe. You know, temporal lobes, looking at the coordinate nuclear gray matter white matter, and looking at the amygdala, cuz you’ll see a amygdala hypertrophy from traumatized people who are highly stressed and anxious and also look at the thalamus. Cause the thalamus is richly innovated with my cells, this rich with my, and, and so we look at these different parameters, then I do all the sort of functional I do standard labs, everything I could possibly get my hands on that hasn’t been done before.

And you’ll often find all sorts of things, you know, find. Thyroid antibodies that nobody’s looked at before, or you’ll find, you know, tssh levels that are sort of suboptimal with a low T3, which if you just tweak that things improve, you’ll find prolactinomas, you’ll find, you know, pituitary, micro, OMAS, you know, you’ll find these things.

If you really keep your diagnostic net quite wide, I always do a Panex dental x-ray and then get a 3d coin beam and get a dental opinion on everybody. If somebody’s had a head injury, I always get a nuclear chiropractic assessment of C1 C two. And if there’s any suggestion of creating a cervical instability, I send people off to that group of people who specialize in that like Dr.
Boies and others. And then on the functional side, I do food sensitivities, not just I G G, but I G G IgE. IG, and I do the lymphocyte sensitivity test as well. Oh wow. And I look at the trends in it. I don’t look at one. People come with the, I G four test isn’t it’s hopeless, you know, so I look at all of those.

I do many stool tests. I do the GI maps. Mm-hmm  I do the Genova tool test. I do the dun wit precision lab Lin, his D AO, um, histamine levels and the lip polysaccharide I do that. I do the intro lab test. If I suspect any gluten issues looking not only for the, the genes, but looking for. Uh, tissue trans determinates antibodies and fecal fat mal absorption.
I also do, um, CIBO testing on half my patients. Cause most of them huge majority, if they have a history of bloating, uh, Sibos always a role, but there’s, CIBO, there’s C nav, quite the term. LIBO large bowel bacteria, Leto, the words we use, you gotta treat them all. And then you look at Vaal time, the whole motility issue, and that’s through heart rate variability and specific devices we used.

Then I look at the, I use the ion panel. I know some people use the, uh, neutro valve, but I, the ion panel I can read in 15 seconds and look at amino acids, minerals, antioxidants, steady acids, but for fatty acids, I mostly look at the Kennedy Krieger body bio fatty acid panel for am omega three, six distribution saturate a fat distribution, the ratios between minimal and look to see if the lipid content of the cell membrane is high or low.

Because if the lipid content is low, like minus 25 minus 30, and you go put people on binders for mold, you’re gonna crash that patient like instantly. And so I look at that. I look at fats, uh, we look at the organ, the oats, the part of the ion panel. I do oats testing. I do the great. It’s heavy metals and the microtoxin test, but I I’m really moving away from the microtoxin testing because there’s so much bad medicine being practiced at that test.

It’s it’s I think it’s, uh, I think Richie Shoemaker for all of his, you know, he’s, he’s, he’s got some certain opinions about. Things. And one of the opinions he has is on the microtoxin test, not being indicative of SARS, chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And on that, he’s incredibly correct. You cannot go and diagnose mold illness based on a urine microtoxin testing.

Don’t even begin to tell me, you can, you know, you can’t and it’s it’s bad medicine and I wish it would stop, you know? Yeah. I learned that too, because essentially if you’re healthy, you will be able to remove microtoxins from even your diet, um, in a urine test. So you can’t differentiate between a healthy person that’s releasing versus somebody that’s really poisoned from it.

And so you need more markers than that. What’s interesting is I’ll find some SIRS clients that will then take the microtoxin test and they’re not releasing any because I think they’re unwell. And so that part of it is interesting, but you’re right. The test itself is not enough, but well, they they’ve done testing with healthy controls and the healthy controls have the same microtoxins in urine cause they had corn and uh, pizza the night before.

Right. You know, if I was your patient and I didn’t have all the funds to do all that testing, is there a baseline you can start with with, based on my symptoms, maybe running some of the lab tests? Maybe not all of those, because that’s a lot. Well, I haven’t finished yet.  let me tell you the, let me tell you the test that I really rely on now.

Okay. That’s the IGL test out of Germany that. Has changed my practice, cuz that measures the ducts that sit on DNA, affecting DNA transcription, and you can find mold and mercury and aluminum and glyphosate affecting how messenger RNA is transcribed. It also tells you about cell membrane voltage. It tells you about mitochondrial numbers cuz when you have what’s called a cell danger response.

Mitochondria undergo oage die and you can measure how many mitochondria there are, and you can see it’s low or not. You can see if the cell membrane voltage is low, you can then look at superoxide DYS glut levels. You can look at phosphide choline, phosphide ethyl, OME, the outer inner membrane of the cell.

And you can see how depleted they are. You look at cardio lipins and whether that enzyme is making cardio Lipin. And on and on and on. It’s just a fantastic test. It also tells you about, it gives you a lymphocyte sensitivity test to mold, fungal elements and metabolites. So you can see if mold is sitting on the DNA or whether there’s fungal metabolites or fungal SPOs in the bloodstream to which the lymphocytes are sensitive.

So I find that very helpful. Now you’ll often find people with a microtoxin test in the urine that’s negative, but when you go and look at the DNA, there’s mold micro mold for sitting on the DNA affecting, you know, um, transcription wow. Of messenger RNA. And that person is often, far sicker than the one who’s got microtoxins in the urine is excluding them.

Right? So you in answer your question, what tests you run and how do I do it? Well, I’ve got to the stage in my career where they, everybody who comes to see me now, it appears has done lots of these things, you know, but never. Never enough. And so I say, look, here’s what I need. Here’s the tests. I also do Cyrex antibody testing.

I do the neural Zuma antibodies to brain. You know, I do all the almond lab mold, Lyme testing, and iGen X. If I have to. So I say, here’s what I need to complete your diagnostic profile. And my staff then send it to them. And then it’s their decision with their budgetary restrictions. I try not to interfere with that.

Cuz some people have funds. Some people don’t, if they don’t have funds, I then try and adjust my practice accordingly, but then you’ve gotta adjust their expectations as well, because they’ll always come with you and say, oh, I’ve got, I’ve got mold on this. Look at my microtoxin test. And then you take a two hour history and they’ve got 50 other determinants of being unwell.
Right? So then you give them the diagnostic roadmap to give them the, what you believe I believe is the insight into that. But then they on, you know, they’re they don’t have funding. So then you try and work with what you can, but you’ve got to taper your expectation and they’ve gotta taper theirs. And that’s a tricky relationship with people, you know?

They’ve been traumatized because if they don’t trust what you’re saying, they’re gonna project all they distrust onto you and then they’re going, you know, they’re gonna, it’s tricky. It’s a tricky relationship working with ill people. Not always, but it can be. Yes. Yes. So let’s, let’s talk about an example of sir, somebody that has the genetic haplotype, they’re all the blood markers that Dr. Shoemaker brings up, like the MMP nine TGF beta one, Ms. They’re all low or they’re all high. And the weight they’re all low, right? SOH is low. The other markers are extremely high and their environment isn’t the greatest because they don’t have the funds to really fix the environment. But then, then I meet people that are limbic system retraining specialists, and they talk about how they.

Force their body to rewire their brain and, and be able to get better, even in an environment where their army score isn’t the best. So, you know, you talked about all these layers of health. Yeah. How do we know that if we were to just pull the layer of trying to manage the brain and how it reacts to stress?

Like what if that will just heal some of the other areas, even if in tests they’re off tricky, tricky dynamics  so if you take the history there’s water exposure. Yes. You do the army testing. There’s positive, you know, all hurts me too above 10, and they got all the bad ones and the, the symptom questionnaire they’ve got, you know, 25 symptoms in 13, 12 clusters, and they fail a visual contrast test.

And then you do the Shoemaker markers and the TGF B is 10,000, the C four H 20,000. Ms. H is five, you know, and. The person is highly reactive to the mold that they’re exposed to. I don’t believe that you can only do DRS or Gupta’s retraining program and treat them with that methodology. I think that methodology is important when the amygdala gets sensitized.

And is hyper reactive to the incoming biotoxins, but I do think you’ve gotta work biologically to downregulate the innate immune system while addressing the amygdala hyperactivity at the same time. And often you’ve gotta work sooner logistically. Yes, but there’s even a deeper layer that the DNRs and crypto training program often don’t get to the hidden defenses of the individual who’s hyper reacted because they’re protecting their, the last vest of their innocence, which never got traumatized.

And they are so defended against anything. That’s could be perceived as toxic that they can’t downregulate the amygdala because the trust is not there and they can’t trust anything. And that’s when you need to go into internal psychotherapeutic work. Uh, and you can’t just work with dynamic neuro retraining or cook program.

You have to address the defenses of the individual. So it’s tricky, but it can be negotiated. And some of my patients with the amygdala sensitivity, they just think of mold and they react that they do. It’s a real reaction. It’s not, they’re just so sensitive. And you look at the neuro quite, and then amygdalas in the 98 percentile it’s hypertrophy is big.

It’s two standard deviations than everybody, and then their colleagues and their age match controls. So then you’ve gotta, you gotta do all sorts of neuro bio, all the whole things around neuroplasticity and cell membrane, integrity and fatty acid manipulation. And it’s complex. That’s interesting because that’s kind of what I’m coming down to.

So just to give you a background, I specialize in the carnivore diet because I believe it’s the ultimate elimination diet in terms of just getting food off the table as a culprit of your illness, and then we can work on everything else. And so there’s a handful of people, including myself that have healed a lot.

In terms of illness, mental illness through a meat, only diet. But as I worked with more people in more complicated cases that the food doesn’t fix everything. So they get a lot better, but not enough that they feel better. And so they start working with me and I started noticing there were people that had this serves and I fell into shoemaker’s work.

We started testing some of the markers and they had the genetic type. They had all the markers we just mentioned. And, and so they started some of the coolest tyramine. They did some of the excess fish oils and it wasn’t enough. And my guess is like, you mentioned that, um, Kennedy test, they would’ve probably had really low markers and you not touch tyramine unless, you know, the lipid content it’s fatal mistake.

Second fatal mistake. First is treating a person with, with a microtoxin test is having mold illness. Second is throwing tyin at they prematurely. Sorry, carry on. Yeah. Yes, yes. And so, well, that test is not part of the NA the original protocol. And so, no, no, no. I, I actually learned it from you and it made so much sense of, well, this is a bio acid reducer, which also was known to reduce your cholesterol.

And if you cannot take in fatty acids, you might not have the wherewithal to even take the colony remain. And so the, the phospholipid flush the, and the fatty. That all made sense, but this and cholesterol, cholesterol forms is structured in your cell membrane and is a precursor to all your hormones. You don’t wanna block cholesterol to the point of extinction.

You want a cholesterol to be sort of highish normal, not yes, yes. You wanna block Cho. And I think that’s where carnivore is so powerful that if somebody has been eating carnivore with a high fat diet and their cholesterol markers are high, they’re more prepared to take tyramine yes. Than the average person that’s eating a low fat diet.

Exactly. The don’t get me started on the vegan diet and I’m gonna get everybody’s kinda scream at me on social media. No, no. Well, my community is not plant based. Um, I actually got sick on a plant-based diet, so, but yeah, I was, I was the head of the vegetarian society for 17 years, so I’m familiar with it.

OK. But my experience, you don’t get people well on a vegan diet, if they’re in a chronic ill health multisystem, multis symptom, complex illness mode, it’s just not gonna happen. Right. Right. And I, and I fully agree with that. And so. Happened was some of the people as they got diagnosed with SIRS, they started going into the excess research of what do I need to do now.
I need to be super mindful of every building I go into and, you know, that fight or flight mode, just really high gear of stress and, um, just being in their illness all day long. And I think those people then using the, the limbic system retraining. So it seems like it’s a lot of these modalities together that can actually heal people more than a lot of them together.

Yes. Most of those people, and I say this generically and somewhat, I hope it doesn’t come off as sort of prejudicial, but a lot of those people with the limb. Hyperactivity have trauma. Oh no, I believe that too. And they can’t there’s no, there’s no re they can’t self regulate. There’s no window of tolerance.

And I send them to somatic experiencing trauma therapists. I don’t, they do good DS, but they often need to do body based body up therapy, where they need to actually learn how to tolerate more and develop a window of tolerance. Um, uh, that I use se practitioners a lot somatically. I refer to that. I’ll have to look into that.

That’s fascinating. Yeah. Just check that one out because it’s, uh, it’s a, it’s the game changer. Yeah. When DNRs fails and Gupta fails, think trauma think early thinks se uh, body base, you know, be off on cult’s book. The body keeps the score. Mm-hmm  yes. That’s real stuff, you know? Okay. And it’s, if you look at Robert Navo cell danger response, you look at PGES body vagal, uh, dorsal, Vago, shutdown, response, those people.

Autonomic nervous system shut down. Mitochondria are shut down. They’re in an inflammatory response. So is part of, uh, Robert NEAU cell danger response, number one. Okay. That makes sense. And they shut down and they don’t have a capacity to self regulate. It’s not happening cuz they, they, their whole system is in a state of freeze, not fight flight that’s, you know, beyond they’re beyond that.

Yeah. And they, and se practitioners know that stuff backwards and they can help you negotiate that territory. Yeah. And PGE developed a sat and sound protocol, which is a series of, of sounds and music and patients with severe trauma reduce up and sound. This is the feedback I’ve got. It found. It sounded.

My mother’s soothing voice had finally spoken and got through to me.  wow. Is that, that, what does the mother’s soothing voice do to a child? The child in trains with the mother’s voice and tone, the right prefrontal cortex of the mother resonates with the child’s right. Prefrontal cortex. They entrain with each other.

Over 30 years, the child looks away, looks away. Self-regulate looks to the mother. Mother’s still there. Mother still loves me, challenged me a bit, you know, support challenge. Over 30 years of neurodevelopment, the child learns to trust the environment, learns to trust safety, learns limbic resonance. They learn to self regulate their system.

If there’s been early trauma, doesn’t work self, a sense of self doesn’t develop the sense of self trust. And self-regulation, isn’t there safe and sound recreates that which is missing the mother’s voice. That’s hard like Clinton, like Clinton in the mother’s eye mother just has to have be 30% present, apparently to have a reasonable child upbringing.

oh wow. You be a perfect mother. You just felt be present about 30% of the time and you gotta support and challenge that child and give it appropriate sort of boundaries to work in and, and create a sense of trust and safety. So would you recommend then for a lot of the people that are dealing with chronic illness, chronic fatigue, let’s say they don’t have a lot of funds, but some of that trauma work and, um, the somatic, as you were talking about doing that can be very beneficial with, in tandem with someone like yourself that can also support improve, provide care.

It’s so difficult here, Judy I’m so used to working with a very broad diagnostic. Okay. That I, I can say yes, but, and you know, yes. What else is going on?  right. Is the theater brainwave feed standard deviations higher than the peer group. And if so, that person doesn’t do well. They in a disassociate in, in pathy.

Okay. So they may not be able to do safe and sound work, you know? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know. There’s always nuance and I, I totally understand that fully. I wanted to shift topics a little bit. I know that you, on your Instagram page, you share a lot about M a histamine responses. Yeah. Yeah. Can you share a little bit about in the carnivore community?

For example, a lot of people will remove certain foods and then they try to reintroduce it. It could even be salmon for example. And they say that they have more mass cell activation and more histamine responses eating the carni way. I don’t know if it’s because part of the reason is that they’ve removed the food for a while and now as they’re introducing it, they’re just a, um, reacting.

And maybe it just takes a little bit of reintroduction, but what are your thoughts? Well, histamine, you. Breakdown product OFTA Dean right rights more there. And where’s, HETA Dean found more in salmon. Right. So, you know, um, if they’ve got my cell activation and I, you, if you go and do an ion panel, you’ll see histidine there.

Oh, okay. And all my, my cell patients have high Heine levels. You see it all the time. And so if you’re introducing salmon in particular, if it’s not flash frozen on the boat. Sure, sure. Aged one of the worst triggers of myself that, and. You know, and all the fermented foods that are so popular now I know.

So, so you gotta be careful with that one. You gotta, you know, beef, if it’s, you know, a lot of beef is old too, they let it, the it, the, yeah, the it, and so of course, you know, that’s a, something duck for myel activation, but that’s where you gotta do the precision done Woody test and see what the DAOs doing and see what the histamine levels and the Lin levels, and then ready prepare them, you know, use your umbrellas or your, his Dao in huge amounts, 30 minutes along with chromosome.

You know, if you suspect you’re gonna react to meat or, or any food for that matter. And then you use all your myself, I’m very aggressive with myself. Like, cuz I use. Okay. I use pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals, but I, I, I happen to use pharmaceuticals more than nutraceuticals because I find they get the job done quicker.

And I do intravenous myself blockade for the very sensitive people, the ones that just wiped out, they can’t function. They can’t leave their hospice. They’re reactor really. They they’re down to three foods. Right. So we, we bring them. Look for parts first, look for hypermobility. Number two, then treat them with intravenous ma cell Benadryl ol Aban.

We use I IV Avan, which is a Maal blocker. Unden Thero for some of the nausea and GI symptoms. Get them stabilized then onto pharmaceuticals. Then maybe nutraceuticals. I work that way around. I know lots of people work nutraceutical, but I, I just because I’m an MD, but you’ve gotta use them without excipient or diets.

You’ve gotta get compounded pharmaceuticals. Sure. So what is the root cause of this? M a right. So it’s obviously there’s a hypersensitivity to histamines. Not everyone has that same reaction. I mean, some of it is maybe they have gut permeability, but something triggered the M a to occur. Like, what is the root cause of why are people getting diagnosed with M a S and it, sometimes it just happens in their thirties and forties, but what is causing it?

And so Aron Lawrence Aron, who I work with. Okay. And part of his little group we wrote, he wrote the paper, which we co-authored on the consensus two statement of what is my cell activation, how to diagnose it. There are genetics to it. There’s not the same genetics that are there with systemic master psychosis.

So my cell activation syndrome is just an overactivity of my cells. Systemic mass cytosis, as you know, is increased numbers of milestones. So in, in my cell activation syndrome, you’ve got twitchy, my cells and my cells sit in all the surfaces of a body to protect you from incoming, toxic load and internal mental stresses.

LA Ron’s Han believes that the mental, uh, trigger of myel activation is more powerful than the physiological triggers. So what you have is, you know, these vigilant cells sitting there ready to pounce, whenever something comes in that shouldn’t be coming in and they send out thousand mediators of inflammation.

Right. Of which we measure 10 histamine is one of them and histamine. Yeah. So you’ve got these, my cells sitting on all the RFS in your nose, um, your GI tract, particularly richly innovated in the judum all the way through to the anus in the skin, in the brain, in the. Cardiac tissue and lungs in particular.

And they send out a thousand mediators of inflammation, histamine being one of them. Right, right. One out of a thousand. And they send out these in these signalings to try and dampen the incoming, toxic load. So they protect it. But they’re overreactive.
Why? Because. Look around you. We’re inundated all day long with, you know, toxins or triggers.

Biotoxins chemicals, metals, insecticides, pesticides, EMFs. Oh my don’t have you started on the EMF story, terrible trigger of muscle cell activation in a subset of patients. So those with the electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome, just to, for your, for your, um, clients don’t work without a building biologist, looking at the EMF exposures of your patients, ask them about it.

The same is don’t work without a biological dentist looking at the bite and the root canals and the capitations and the metals and the alloys and everything else. So the reason why the, my cells are so active is because our toxic load is so active. It’s so huge.

And so you get, there’s a genetic predisposition to some people.

For my cell activation syndrome. Mm-hmm  but it’s a toxic load. That’s exceeded like capacity to self-regulate once again. And so they’re just throwing out, you know, Ava trying, trying to keep the lid on a massive inflammatory response, but they trigger my cells, trigger oxidative stress. They trigger peroxide nitrate.

What does Pery nitrate do? It rips through your outer membrane and your inner cell membrane phosphocoline phosphine gets to your DNA, your mitochondrial DNA, mitochondrial DNA unravels goes outside the cell with ATP. Wow. Outside the cell. They become pro-inflammatory and they, then they call purines, they then trigger my cell activation to trigger Parx nitrate.
And all of a sudden you’re stuck in an inflammatory response you can’t get out of. So that’s the cell danger response, which is so beautifully described by Robert paver. Again, for your audience, please don’t go far without knowing his work backwards and forwards. Yeah, sure. And I’ll put that in the show notes.

Yeah. So then do you think if people get out of the toxic soup and they change their environment, work on some of the trauma, you know, and I’m saying it so simply I know it’s not that simple, but that we can actually reverse some of the M C. So that our bodies are not reacting as much. Oh, absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

Okay. I’ve had people, you know, they do the MQ symptom questionnaire, which is the IFM standard questionnaire for toxicity. All the symptoms score 180, 1 90 for add up all their symptoms, normals 20 or less. They come in a year later, they scores down at 20. Yeah. Now people get better. Now the ones who don’t get better are the highly traumatized individuals who with personality disorders, they are trickier to work with, you know, borderline and, and people with severe mental health issues like anxiety.

Sure. OCD, OCD is a big one. Yeah. They often don’t get better until they use it. S Sri or some form of control of the, uh, hacker activity of the system. How much do you think diet plays a role outta curiosity? A hundred percent, but is not the only thing. Diet is everything. Of course, diet in general, a hundred percent diet with M C.

99%. It’s big. You know, it is big now Lawrence Aron doesn’t believe diet is as big as some of us do in the functional world. But those of us who work in the functional world, I mean, there’s no way you’re gonna treat a severe mass cell person. Who’s eating eggs and drinking kombucha and you know’s drinking wine every night.

It’s not gonna happen. There’s no way. So you have them on lower histamine foods. Then I work with Justin Sanger and nutritionist, chef Revis, a cookbook together, and we do paleo autoimmune, low histamine, ketogenic, maybe FODMAPs, maybe isolates, maybe Oates. We do. We have to know all the diets. Yes. And that makes sense.

We know, we have to know how to juggle them. And we’ve developed a two page cheat sheet with every food color coded. So, you know, onions, it’s got a color code for oxalates orates or Fatma. So a food may have four colors on it because it’s got four different potential effects in the body and to try and work that out.

You’ve. Look at your food testing, you gotta take your history because the food testing doesn’t tell you about my cell necessarily, but you’ll see trends showing up quite a lot. You’ll see pineapples in there, Kiwis in there, Candis in there. A lot of the beans are in there. A lot of the beans are always in there.

That’s fascinating. Yeah. And so you just look at trends and you gotta think it through and you look at their diet and, and you eventually work out what to do. But I think the mildly ketogenic, paleo autoimmune low histamine is where, uh, we sort of trend towards to restore the cell membrane, integrity and repair mitochondria.

Yeah. And that’s where I love the carnivore diet. I mean, obviously I have my biases, but so I know that there are foods in the carnivore diet that are high histamine, but if you were to remove those, so let’s say the eggs, let’s say some of the fish, but if you were to focus on mostly meat based and then, um, I mean, it’s so similar to the paleo.
It’s just, I think I, I forget if the autoimmune paleo contains nuts. I don’t think it does, but maybe it does. Um, well, you take out all nuts in nap pale or two. I, I include three, three of the non mini nuts sometimes just in the beginning, Brazil, Nu pine. And I always forget the third one. Is it Macada okay.

Okay. There’s three nuts. That aren’t many. Okay. How funny? So people are really, I got no foods. We always use those to begin with. And then when you see, yeah. Oh, sure, sure. So you do it like a trickle down effect. Okay. Does that make sense? But I take out all grains, all legumes, all nitrates, all dairy, all fermented foods, all alcohol.

Oh, uh, you know, we take them out, right? We start from scratch meat, fish, chicken, stir fries, salads with oils and fats, the oils, and the fats are the piece that people do not do properly. I agree.  and, and that’s why if you stick, stick to mostly carnivore, you’re not eating seed oil. So then it becomes so so much.

I know it’s a lot more restrictive than at least giving them. Those three nuts, but in general, if you do a meat only, it becomes easier because it’s really easy to figure out which ones, um, you just focus on meats and then you’re not eating seed oil. So you’re just sticking to the lad or the, um, the sewed and other types of fat.
And, and then you may just have to have a list of what foods in the animal based world that are higher in histamines, and you may just have to reduce those. And it becomes a lot more simple when these people are trying to do so many different things.
And that’s where I personally like the Carver diet, um, especially as an elimination diet first, and then as they heal, they can introduce other foods.

So I think, I think it makes a lot of sense is another player on the, on the market these days is, uh, Gooden, ours work with plasmin. Okay. And he does a test called the prodrome scan where he measures all the, all the plasman and DHA and okay. Hospital co. So now I’m learning to work with that test, the, um, Kennedy KRE of fatty acid and the IGL mitochondria and our, all our work is to repair some membranes mm-hmm  and to work with the right fats to, to, uh, improve, um, neuronal tissue, uh, white matter, and to create a anti-inflammatory effect through DHA and so forth and so on.

But majority of people that come and see me are a omega six depleted. They all, none of them are doing all, uh, vegetable based oils and all of them are onco and they officially interesting. It’s completely suppressed the omega six side and the omega six side, the line lake acid is the raw material for phosphide choline.

That’s so fascinating. So a lot of people in my community are so scared of omega sixes because of the line lake acid that’s causing. Oh, obesity. No, no, no, no. So can you explain a little bit, so these people are, have been on a diet and they’re they’ve, they’re now becoming deficient in omega six, omega sixes.

Ole linolenic RONIC, it’s all wiped out. They minus minus a hundred on the, a omega six profile on the Kennedy Krieger test. And that’s the precursors to a lot of your phosphide co, which is the major fat that’s made from methylation that helps run outer and inner cell membranes go figure. And so the reason why they don’t use the vegetable oils is because most of them are toxic and they ran it and they got deodorizers in them.

Yes. Hide smell of the rans body bios fuit co I think is, you know, uh, is a fantastic omega six precursor. If you deficient in it, I would take the body bio balanced oil, which is ad. Oh, okay. Okay. I’m aware of that one. Yes. Yeah. And, and it’s, it’s, it’s prepared in a very clean, you know, cold press for okay.

Yeah. Very clean, no oxidation. And if you lower it in a lake, that’s what we plug in. Mm. Um, Justine St again, the nutritionist I work with, she, she consults on the plasman PLA the prodrome and the body bio fatty acid, and works people together with those nutritionally and supplementally. Yeah. It’s, it’s amazing that.

We hear certain context of certain nutrition and wellness, and then people take it to a lump to an extreme, and then they become deficient in omega sixes. And, and I started seeing that a little bit in my, um, I, I do a basic omega three, six test and people were starting to get more omega three rich because they were afraid of the omega sixes.

And now people are standing to get deficient because of all the polyunsaturated fatty acids that can cause obesity or insulin resistance. And also because of the fear of these seed oils. And, and now we’re becoming super more it’s either that we don’t have any fats or that we’re becoming more omega three rich, and we’ becoming deficient.

And I didn’t even think about the PPH ti choline. And that makes sense because I do recommend PPH ti choline, but without thinking about the omega six and the pre, because six often the omega the little lake is the, you. Pho often made from saturated that could be made from saturated. Fat was Lu lake is one of the major contributors towards fus curly.
Right? And so is the methylation panel, the folic acid, B12 zinc, magnesium ATP, that whole, uh, Sammy, that whole methylation panel, 70% of methylation and methol transfer is all to do with making phosphate. Possible is rules, you know? Right, right. And creatine, I mean the, the methylation cycle is big on creatine too.

So, you know, one marker in the service protocol is that our Ms. Sh is low and the goal is to increase thath so that our brain is not atrophying. And you know, a lot of the protocol says that the way that you increase sh is eventually you go through the whole Shoemaker protocol. Yeah. But you take V I P yeah.

But when I was doing some re research, the pituitary is what produces the UMH or melanocyte stimulating hormone. And some of it gets activated by UV rays. So couldn’t, we, some of us go outside every day. And get more UV rays and maybe it’s not enough, but could it actually increase some of theh? I don’t know the answer to that.

I do know looking, you know, at the sunrise and sunset has a tremendous effect on the duty function. Okay. Me production. But with Ms. Being low, most people with serves of low MSA, like sometimes super low. Right. And, and you’ve gotta all the up upstream, you know, inflammatory cytokines have to be downregulated.

And then you’ve gotta look for marks because the, you know, the nasal staff is what suppresses the MSA. Right. So you gotta treat the marks first. Treat the marks don’t regulate all the up, you know, all the steps, get them out of the toxic thing out the toxic building. And some people are now using peptides to help treat the Ms.
Stage or me. Yeah. Peptide. But again that you see that’s an N squared D squared thought process. Yes. Yes. Name of medicine. Name of symptom. Name of drug. Yes, it’s true. It’s not like that. You’ve gotta look systemically. How do I remove everything? That’s suppressing Ms. H right. And then how does Ms. H naturally start to find its way back up?

Yeah. And your patients, do you ever see them fully heal and their markers all normalize over time? If they follow the no, no, absolutely. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yeah. And, and white matter lesions in the brain disappear. How much do you think the environment needs to be pristine? Because that’s the biggest thing I get the hangup is it’s nearly impossible to have an environment that’s has zero mold.

So it depends on the level of the amygdala sensitization to that patient and the level of trauma and the level of trust it’s it’s algorithmically complex. So some people who. They are say HLA positive, but they’ve got good ego strength and have resilience. They can tolerate a lot more than somebody who’s, you know, in VEIC terms, vital imbalance.

Sure. Fatty active deficient, sympathetic dominance, or in polyvagal shut down. They can’t tolerate a lot. And so they just look at our building and if they just catch a whiff of a, of a nasty smell, they are in a full, you know, flare surge reaction. Yeah. It’s so individual, you never know. That’s so fascinating.

And that makes a lot of sense. When I think about my individual clients, how certain people are a lot more resilient, even though they have the haplo type and then other ones, just the fact that they have a split second, where they feel finally I have an answer, but then the split second later is, oh no, I have this haplo type.

And then they start reacting. So it is interesting, but because you see says. You can often not be exposed to mold, but serves in and of itself is the disease that you now have. Right? You have a chronically active, innate immune system that is now your problem. Yeah. And you may not be living in a moldy environment, but you haven’t gone through the steps of reduction of the, of the biotoxin that originally was there that triggered the whole surge response in the first base.

Right. Right. And that’s what nivo called the cell danger response. You stuck in the cell danger response and Robert nivo brilliantly said, we need things. He called the word emesis. You need to input therapeutic signaling to change the. The cell danger response. You can’t just hope to get better. One day, you’ve actually gotta do things.

You know, what are some of the examples that he, um, that Robert Novo recommends to improve the cell danger response? Well, he’s a researcher and he used the drug serum, which is a, uh, an old drug that you can’t get. Oh, okay. And serum blocked the receptors for the, um, DNA fragments and ATP fragments for triggering this whole self danger response.

Oh, okay. Okay. But he also did all the work on what are the biological changes on the self danger response and what is the one that is most consistent, fast choline? Vaso. Choline is big. That is so crazy because I do, I have been adding that before people even consider tyramine. So maybe do some of the omega threes.

I, I did see that balance of the omega 6 36. And I wasn’t sure if I was gonna use that one, but, and then I thought of the PPH title calling for the membranes, but it’s so fascinating. I’ll definitely have to look more into his research. Many people overdo the DHA component of omega three S yes or the EPA.

Now the I don’t, this is right Dr. Good’s research. I’m not sort of up on it as much as I should be. Okay. But I do know that alpha little Lennic. And EPA, uh, signaling molecules and they don’t do much for the whole equation. It’s a DHA that does everything. Okay. So here’s a Smogen DHA specific plasma Mogen, but you can overdose on DHA as well.

Right? So everybody who comes in with this amigo, you know, three, six index that’s off the chart for a MEUs sticks, the end danger of being very deficient in some of the essential fats to regulate cell membrane and mitochondrial functioning. So I wouldn’t go off those simple tests. I would, I would look at Kennedy Krieger or the, uh, fatty acid test.

Okay. No, no. Even the, even the ion panel, fatty acid is not robust enough. Sometimes it even contradicts the Kennedy credo and that’s fascinating. Okay. Okay. No, good to. A question about the IME test. So, um, I had a client that took a, you know, like a, I think it’s just a air sample from a person that normally, you know, sells homes and they do the mole testing.

And then I told him that he should pro and so his house came out clean, and then he did the IIE test and his number was maybe in the twenties. And I told him that you have high mold and that the other test is not really accurate. The first mold inspector came back and showed a link to the EPA saying that IMI tests are not supposed to be used.

Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts of the testing? So the answer to that question, you know, the one you, the person you want to read, who’s done so much work is Richie Shoemaker. Okay. He’s already dissected this issue backwards and forwards. Okay. And he did a series of, uh, articles in the tons and letter, which we just Google it.

One to five on mold and he discusses that question in detail. Okay. And so the world out organization has come out saying that the air sampling test is irrelevant. Uh, it’s worth us and meaningless because a you’ve gotta circulate air through. First of all, a lot of the toxins aren’t in the air, they’re on the ground.

Secondly, the particulate size of the, of the, the spores or the microtoxins are lower than 0.3 microns. And they pass through the, they pass through the replace. They don’t pick them up. And so, and, and thirdly, like STAs, the most damaging of all of them is on the floor. It’s not in the air. There’s this whole in the Shoemaker group anyway, this whole.

Sort of don’t they don’t use air sampling. It’s not used they, right. You see. And he says, do not even somebody comes at you with the air sample, throw them at your hearts, but it’s the industry standard. I know that’s and the lawyers and the insurance companies, that’s what they use. So, and army test was not supposed to be used clinically, but I can tell you now that I hurts me to test with the added Acton SIS and other components.

That’s what, I don’t even look at air sampling. I just wanted to clarify for the audience. I mean, there are people that’s, what we are known for is the air sampling. But if you have anyone that’s struggling with mold illness, the recommend the IEN and the SME. So I, it hurts me too. And looking at the aspergillus for, and the other thing is doesn’t differentiate the, the Asper species.
You don’t know if it’s for or Pallo. It doesn’t look for Olevia it’s it’s not good. Okay. Okay. Good to know. Yeah. There are some people that struggle with Lyme and Lyme is they say it’s really, really hard to detect that it’s really hard to figure out the co-infections people will do the Western blot and it doesn’t always, uh, show that you have it.

There’s like the other, the galaxy. And I forget the I Genix one, I think. But do you recommend a certain test that people can figure out if they have Lyme? No. And I, and I, I, it is just such a again, I mean, I, I think one word that’s coming on mouth repeatedly. It’s complex. And I hate to say that, but it’s complex.

I know you’ve gotta get a history from a patient. Okay. Not necessarily the tick bite and the MI, you know, the, the erythema rash and the weak followed by flulike illness. If you get that history. Okay. That’s great. But many people don’t have that history, you know? Okay. Yes. And so you’ve gotta do a history.

Then I do, I do questionnaires. I do the NCE questionnaire by Horowitz and I do the can lime questionnaire revised, which is from the Canadian Limus associate can or something. And then I added Boris’s questionnaire and I made my own, okay. So I do Horovitz my own. I take a history and if I’m suspecting tickborne infection and co-infection, I then run T-cell testing or through Armon labs in Germany, and I run iGen X, full iGen X immuno block testing.

And if I suspect, and I’m looking there for IgM, I G G PCR, um, and I’m looking for RNA fragmentation, and I’m looking for all the.
Added lime biomarkers that have recently come up with relapsing fever and MIMO and things like that. So I do all of those iGen X, Y Armin lab, El spots. I don’t do the tick Plex plus much with Armin because I get what I need on the, um, agen X.

And then I run galaxy labs for . And then I sit with the awareness that many people will have negative labs and still have tickborne illness. And that’s the sort of current teaching. Amongs one of the PI all the pioneers in lime world, which is vilified by the, uh, I S D a association. There’s no such thing as chronic ly, right?

The test, you know, the testing’s irrelevant. It’s a, it’s a mess. It’s a minefield. And what I do know is that many people come in with a, you know, an I G G I X Lyme test. On one of the bands and say, I got lime. It’s like coming with a microtoxin test and say,
I’ve got first, that’s a perilous mistake to make.

Okay. You gotta really, you gotta have your wits about you from a, for a number of reasons. A if you, the diagnostic testing is expensive. Yes. B patients love to find single point causation. If they say you’ve got lime, you’re gonna send them down a rabbit hole of two to four years of whatever treatment you choose.

Sure. And C you are going to be vilified by your traditional colleagues.

If you’re not surefooted on this one. And most of our medical boards will take your license away. Wow. If you, oh yeah. If you start dabbling in this field, so it depends on your resilience to withstand the whole onslaught of the lime world. Now there’s people out there who do lime beautifully and who are experts like Horovitz and.

Steve Harris and others, you know, mm-hmm  and I recommend you probably go to the, the most prominent, most qualified, loud, you know, most outspoken expert in the field and go treated by them, but to be treated by an inexperienced naturopath or has been to one eyelids course and has one test, I be careful.
Yeah. It’s a perilous path. Um, okay. Yeah. As we’re closing, if people are, you know, have tried many different diets and they’re just not getting fully better and you know, standard care is really not been doing. Good for them. And diet helps somewhat, but not enough. And they’re just feeling chronic fatigue.

Where, where should they start? Like what should they do to maybe incrementally start getting better? Should they save up money to work with somebody? I mean, what are your thoughts? So a person who’s. Changed their diet, but still chronically fatigued. Yeah. I guess mostly fatigue. Maybe they’re still struggling with hypothyroid and they’re, I guess maybe we don’t take talk about the hypothyroid because maybe they have to balance their medication, but somebody that’s just still not fully feeling well.

And I guess the main symptoms would be chronic fatigue, maybe some brain fog. But just generally unwell, Julia, I hate to sort of be the bearer bad news, but you gotta do all layers, all levels. You gotta take your history. That’s fair. You know, if so, so let’s look at one of the variables. Yeah. A person may be uninspired.
They’re living a life. They’re not living their values system. They’re living their fathers. And they’re go to get up and go to work every day, not inspired and not being called from above, if you will, by that, which is speaks to them and evokes their creative spirit. Yes. And, but they got a positive microtoxin and a Mo or whatever test you want, and then you start taking the history and you realize.

Is this person, what do they have to get up to every day? What, what in sport calls I get up every day and do what I do. Cause I love to do what I do. What’s calling them from above to get up and do what they love to do. Why? Because the particular activating system in the brain is designed to shut you down when you’re not doing what you inspired to do.
Mm. So their fatigue, maybe just the fact that they’re not living their value system, they’re living their fathers, or they don’t even know what their value system is. They don’t even know who they are. They’ve got no self inside. They’re not inside. They don’t know why they get up every day. They’ve got nothing that calls them from above.

So yeah, you can go and do the mold in the diet. But they have no reason to get up every morning. And there’s a lot of patients like that, you know, and you have to start appealing to that aspect of them. Look at their value system and see what’s inspired them. And some of them, you know, patient, how many patients have you had chronic fatigue, sick unwell.
You work beautifully for two years. You go through every single test in the book, you do everything right. No better. And then you go. And you find out they go away and a year later they come back and they fine. What happened to you? I left my husband. I left my job and I fell in love. How much of, how many of us work in that?

You know, we ask about that, but you don’t know. Until the person has changed some of their experiences as to what role those played in their life. You may have hinted it, but until they, they get insight until they change, some of their determinants healing is must. We know so little, you know, We know so little, uh, and sometimes it takes, sometimes it takes, if you will, an act of God, it takes, I don’t mean that in a religious sense, but there’s some movement that sort of enters their field that pulls them into a new experience.

And all of a sudden they shift and they buy chemistry shifts and the molecular signaling shift shows, then they, they feel inspired and life’s meaningful. Again. I don’t know the answer to that question. No, I, I think that’s good. I mean, for me, I struggled with mental health and depression, anxiety. I didn’t like my job.

It was a very well paying job. I traveled the world. Everyone loved the kind of work I did in that sense. But at the core of me, I hated what I was doing. It wasn’t fun. I didn’t enjoy it. Um, and, and I struggled with depression and so I changed the diet and that helped me a lot, but it was really when I.

Found my purpose and yeah. Um, and God had something to do with it too. Yeah. And all of that together has healed me a lot.
So now I no longer share that. It’s just the diet because it diet helped me a lot, but it was like you said, it’s all the layers and I will always have something to work on in that whole sphere of things that you mentioned.
But I think acknowledging that because a lot of my clients will say I have stress it’s, um, that’s normal. This is just the life we live in nowadays. I think it’s making us more sick than we realize. Yeah. There’s a term in the integrated field called the allostatic load, you know? Yes. The incoming load versus the resilience and often that’s, you know, and people are often, people are so habituated to living in the world in a certain way.

They don’t know any other way. And so they think that’s their norm. Right. But then they go on holiday. They fall in love, they have another experience and all of a sudden they go. That wasn’t harmonious or coherent with my values. Now I can see. And only in retrospect, can they look back and see, or they leave a difficult relationship?

You know, sometimes people through Mayas, Bri typology or through attachment styles or VEIC styles, they just oil and water, but they try out of the goodness of their heart to make it work. And it’s, but it’s the allostatic load of that relationship is push them out of homeostasis and then something happens and that relationship breaks.

And all of a sudden the life force gets released and the patient’s back on track, but they were, they were just pushing against an aesthetic load that they weren’t conscious of until they somehow they got out of it for an act of guard or whatever, and then out and they look back and they go, oh my goodness, how did I persevere for so long?

It’s a lot to think about. And I love, I love it because I’ve just found so many of my clients that this is the way to heal is they have to touch everything in their life and it’s not easy. And people want the magic pill to fix everything. Whether it’s the diet, a supplement, a medication, a test. But I think from our conversation, it’s probably a difficult one to listen to because it’s not that simple, but if people really want to get to a level of healing that they can reach, um, It’s really looking into a lot of these layers that you so eloquently have brought up.

So thank you for that. Yeah. Layers, layers, and levels. Yeah. In the, in the roadmap thingy that I do here, which I haven’t published yet because I it’s in my book, but it’s, you know, each level is experience and anatomical conceptual designation as related science, a diagnostic method and the treatment method.

So it all layers. There’s sort of a template of possibilities and many people go to the wrong level. You know, they go, they go and see an acupuncturist when they should be seeing an oncologist or they go and see a shaman when they should be going to see a chiropractor. So there’s different layers and different levels.

So try and educate as to what layer, what level, when and how to integrate. All the possibilities. Well, thank you so much for your time. You, if so I know you’re in Canada. And so this was my struggle is I always need to find a service practitioner to work with my people that have the markers that need to start going through this journey, but you’re in Canada.
So one, how does that work with insurance? If people are in America, is your clinic open for new patients? So I, I do see new patients, but with the us patients, I act as an educator and guide an advocate because we, you know, we. Sort of practice across state lines, so to speak so I can suggest and guide, uh, but they have to have a primary care provider that will implement suggestions and, uh, advice.

And then do you normally have somebody in the states that you recommend? I recommend people go to the ICI website. I S E a I and find a practitioner in the area that has the most experience. Yeah. And so where can people find you your clinic? Um, in Calgary, Alberta, and, um, I have a website, that’s got a lot of my blogs where I write about all these things.
And that’s the Hoffman center is T R E not the American ER . And then I think my staff may have sent you my Instagram thingy and yes, I’ll, I’ll put it in the show notes. I know. Yeah, I know you’re busy. Okay. No, no, no. I understand. I have read. Several of your blogs and you are so well versed and comprehensive, and I, I was totally drawn to you because of that.

So thank you for all your work. No pleasure. I’m glad you, uh, were able to make use of some of the late night research.  yes, no, I get that. Trust me. Um, so I will put all your information in the show notes. I’m excited to just see people really take a look at their illness and, um, take it to another level and look at the different layer.
And I would, I’d like to say thank you to all the, you know, the saying that’s cliche, but the standing on the shoulders of others, but Deri Khar Neil, Nathan, Richie, Shoemaker, Larry Doy, Deepak, all of these people that, you know, you just, you make your way. In relationship to all that they’ve done before you.

So we are not isolated in that way. And, uh, it’s good to say thank you to all your teachers and, you know, gratitude for what we can pass on and integrate and make new, you know, constantly reinventing the diagnostic and therapeutic. Uh, platform, you know? Yes. The goal is always the people and trying to get people better.

And if we can fine tune someone’s work, that’s absolutely the goal is because we want people to heal. So, yeah. And, and, and, and advice just stay related to your patients, you know, through limbic resonance, just, you know, the masks I done away with that, you know, The eyes, the tone of voice, the, the connection, um, that’s where trust gets established and that’s the, the hidden alchemy of healing, you know, that makes sense.

I love it. I believe it . Well, thank you so much. All right. Thank you, Judy. I was chatting to you. Okay guys, I know that this interview is not the most rainbows in unicorns in terms of healing. It may be a long journey, but always have hope that you can heal. Sometimes it takes a lot more extra work than the average person that may eat a meat only elimination diet, but you can still heal.

And there’s a lot that you can do, even with all the. Nuances and depends. And it’s complex from Dr. Hoffman. He says that diet is a hundred percent. Part of the equation. Carnivore is a perfect diet to do while you’re trying to heal all these other levels and modalities in your life that you need to focus on.

It’s never really about the carbs. It’s never really about the POAs. It’s never really about those other things. Oftentimes the illness is far deeper than that in our conversation. One thing that was really fascinating was that Dr. Hoffman brings up how a lot of his patients after having learned a lot about the damaging seed oils and the toxins in canola oil and soybean oil are now actually showing up that they’re really deficient in omega sixes.

He talks about how we need. Some of these essential omega six, such as linoleic acid and the other omega six is to even produce fossil tidal choline. We may be hurting ourselves by trying to reduce our omega six to the point of illness. It’s just something to consider. I know there’s a lot of advocates that are so against omega six to the point that we are just focusing on omega threes, but it is in balance and we are required for both for optimal health.

It’s just something to consider. If you are removing all levels of omega six in your. I hope that this conversation really makes you think and figure out what you need to do to help you get to root cause healing. Make sure to eat a lot of meat, take care of your bodies because it is the only place you have to live.

I will talk to you later. Bye guys.

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